Ep 15 - God's Calling with Matt DeYoung (Part 2)

In this episode welcomed back Matt DeYoung as our special guest as a follow-up and continuation of Episode 12 - God's Calling.  Matt and his wife are doing business as a mission in Belize: the Crazy Coconut Farm and Dairy.  Instead of giving help to people, they are providing jobs and a product. They spent some time recently away in the US, with a goal to discern what God is calling them to next... to stay in Belize, to leave, or finish the work...  Listen in to find out what and how God revealed the answer as we talked again with Matt.

Some things discussed are: 

• Value of getting ready to hear from God
• Getting a new perspective
• Asking - Am I in control, or is God in control?
• Do I see things as a burden or a gift?
• Am I following God, the prompting of the Holy Spirit?

"Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong. Do everything in love.."
1 Corinthians 16:13-14 ESV

Transcript

In this episode welcomed back Matt DeYoung as our special guest as a follow-up and continuation of Episode 12 - God's Calling. As a reminder, Matt and his wife currently are doing business as a mission in Belize: the Crazy Coconut Farm and Dairy.  They spent some time away in the US and are now back in Belize.

Quiet time scriptures we reviewed:

• Philippians 2:12-18
• Colossians 2:6-12
• 1 John 2:2

If you have input, feedback, or other things to request, please send us an email at:
 checkpoint@hillcrestcrc.com

God's Calling... continued
At the time of the prior podcast, Matt and his family were about to begin a sabbatical from their mission in Belize to spend some time with friends and family. Matt was also discerning God's calling for what would be next for their family. Matt had spent some time in prayer and fasting, begging for clarity. An answer did not come quickly, but slowly as he laid out his thought pattern - I can do this or that, I like to do this, I don't like doing this any longer. And instead of getting a direct answer, he sat real quietly for a month and just tried to be as present as he could without really being focused on anything, because he did not have any marching orders.

Hearing from God through others
Matt: I decided to invest into family relationships, meet and talk with people - and it was in the process of conversations while he was home that God revealed things to him. I got to tell the story of our ministry, and hear people say "this is amazing!".  I forget that when I am all alone in isolation. I just think that what I am doing is crazy, why would anyone have to work that hard if it was from God.
I got a chance to really lay out all my fears and anxieties, and the things I loved to God.

In Habakkuk, he says his piece to the Lord, and then goes up to the watch tower to wait for an answer. It was a group of people that I trusted and loved that gave me advice and clarity, and saying "this is amazing."

I had shared with friend that I was ready for anything, to go to a new job, or a new place to live - I was open handed, in part because I was exhausted, tired and a little bit  broken.
My friend said, "Matt, you can't buy what  you are making, what you are doing." That was God's voice, and it burned into my brain.
In a meeting with a group of people, I explained that we don't do feeding programs, but sell ice cream to bring people out of poverty. His eyes opened up and he said “That's amazing” And all of a sudden another thing burned into my mind, like you know what Matt, you forgot that you are doing is God’s work and it is amazing because he's the one that laid out the plan and the and the formula for it. I I have a good pulse on how other people view me in that seems to be one of the things that drives my force, but here it was God using people that I loved and respected to say like, you're on the right track and nobody said congratulations on your ministry you’re done. People said what you're doing is great, not what you have done, not what you left.

Chad: and not inviting you to something new…

Matt:  Right, nobody said - hey here's a job offer for you, hey here's this house for you to buy. No, none of that. It was just sitting in the quiet and getting feedback from the people that I trust in my own life that I just got I got this clarity to say, you're not done yet. Go back. Go back to Belize - and don't do it with any type of sadness or challenge but go back joyfully because God invited you to do something, and you get a chance to finish it out. So the way that I heard God's voice was definitely through conversation with other people. That, it's just when your paradigm shifts or your or you have this moment in your mind where it just really gets imprinted or branded on your mind it was like OK I know that that is what I need to take away from this because I can see that it's in accordance with God's will and with scripture. I was able to get enough peace where when I got back here, I wasn't like man I'm back at the farm it's 110 degrees; I went, wow look at this farm, right.

Chad: Can I ask can I ask a question about that Matt? I think it's amazing what God did, but I think too in my own life, sometimes it can be looking at the day today and how it affects me and you know it's like my perspective and other people were help to give you God's perspective right and so it's like - Oh yeah God is doing something this is bigger than me and so it's not necessarily easy or hard or what I thought, but that doesn't mean God not using it and I'm not where I should be. Even though I felt like that was maybe the case, not sure but maybe the case.

Matt: Right. Richard had mentioned something earlier when we were chatting about you know like, once I take it on my own strength, I'm miserable. When it is God’s project and I get to be along for the ride, It's great. The minute that I don't trust God's timing or the way that he's setting the course and I start to do it on my own, I think that's the season that I was coming out of - right. Looking up and going like, God how am I supposed to teach and run a dairy and raise nine kids and He's up there going you don't – right. You simply show up. I've invited you here, I am in charge. -but you know I'm sure he just laughs at me scrambling and banging my head against the wall I can't figure this out and it's like well, yeah, you're not going to be able to figure it out. You either get to do it because it is a joyful thing, or you know I can pull someone else into it. That’s part of it, I get to do this.

Richard: It is interesting how often it happens, that if you have a bad attitude about something, if you're able to step outside of that environment, either yourself, sometimes physically. Like you physically outside of your farm, outside the country, you physically removed yourself from the situation. Or/and have somebody else give you that outside perspective on something. 22:11 How refreshing that can be then for your own thoughts or mentality and view for whatever situation you were in. I find that in everything. – your job, whatever project at work, it's dragging on and you’re sick of it. Well, take a step back, take a step out look at the big picture. Get some outside perspective, and refresh, then you can start pushing again.

Chad: Matt, I give you a lot of credit. Because it can be easy to make a decision - like, I'm done with this and I'm doing something different. But you didn't. You said, God speak to me and I'm gonna listen and see how the evidence lines up or starts to line up. So that's important to be humble enough to listen even for something you not sure you want to hear. 

Scott: One time a guy at work said, “Don't ask the question unless you're willing to accept any and all answers.” The teacher in me is coming out, I heard, one, ‘I put energy into getting ready for a message from God by fasting by praying by spending time’, two, you went to a trusted group of friends and three, you were willing to listen. How often do we get in trouble because we are not willing to listen? Like the guy said to me, be willing to accept any and all answers - otherwise don't ask the question. And when you ask that of God, that's kind of dangerous and that's risky. But believe, Matt, you could probably testify to the fact that most of the time, if not all, every time you followed God's will there has been joy and reward. Am I correct?

Following God, Following the Holy Spirit
Matt: Absolutely.  I think the fruit of the Spirit follows the Spirit, right. I think when you feel like you're doing what God wants that's the ultimate, right. That's better than being rich, that's better than being handsome. I mean, I don't know what it's like to be handsome. …In my mind when I hear, ‘Matt you did a good job’, I obviously think that I didn’t. I think God let me get so overwhelmed and exhausted that I didn't have any other choice. I think if I was a more in tune human being, I would have pumped the brakes a couple of months ago and fasted and prayed. But I waited until I was all the way at the end of the line, so sad and so depressed. 

This other concept as we talk about calling is, have you guys ever heard the term the ‘dark night of the soul’?  There is a poem that was written, a long time ago, by Saint John of the Cross. It's this spiritual journey, where you almost go into, like not being able to hear from God. It always accompanies a new season, right, so your run hot for a little while and then you go into what a lot of the theologians would call the dark night of the soul. I know it sounds a little ominous, but it has helped me because, I love Jesus, but there have been periods of my life when I was disconnected. 

How interesting is it that when you ask for God’s direction and you don’t get it, do have to dig down and wonder if there's a new season coming next and maybe I have to change the perspective that I have. But that's just something that stayed with me over the years – a period of really challenging close spiritual ties to God I always start to think - I wonder what's coming up next.

Scott:  Did you notice small steps that you maybe missed, or that you could advise people to watch for?

Am I in control, or is God in control?
Matt: I think when the onus of responsibility moves from God to you, it is time to pump the brakes. If I sit down at my desk and I am so frustrated because I don't know how I'm going to get everything done. Or, I walk into my desk and say, God I don’t believe I get to do all this and be part of all these lives.  The minute that your lens and your mind and lens changes. I think that's when you have to do the work, od saying God, before I get to the point that I am in the fetal position playing Candy Crush. Maybe I should have stepped out of this and said, God, where do you want me, because I can tell I'm not doing it right and he's either gonna say OK go here or get a fresh pair of eyes and look back at it and realize that you are exactly where you should be but you are trying to do it on your own without me and that is impossible.

Scott: I think it is important that if we can find ways or put clues in front of people that you can start getting back to God before you get all the way away, that seems like a wise thing to do. Because you don't have to climb out of such a big hole. If you find that you are just focusing on what I need to do, what I need to do and if it's not for the Lord there's a whole lot more weight on your shoulders that really doesn't need to be there. OK that was my philosophy for the night.

Richard. It was amazing, I'm glad we gave you a microphone tonight. It is an interesting concept a little bit that kind of the calm before the storm, I don't know if I can say the calm before the storm because storm makes it sound like a bad thing, but you know having that that calm or that quiet, that silence before you are ready to hear what God has to tell you. It's almost like you know when your five-year-old is throwing a tantrum.  You put him in a room for a while to quiet down and get ready to have that conversation, because if you try and reason with them while they are still throwing their fit, they're not gonna hear it.  

Scott: That's not much different than adults

Richard: Right. So creating that space for you to sit think about what you did so that you are in that appropriate posture and position and mindset to listen to God, I think it's something that is probably counter intuitive. I mean if you're starting to feel already overwhelmed - look at all this stuff I have to do, look at everything that I need to get done and it's falling on me, right. The first thought that would not go through my mind, is ‘Boy, I better just sit and add solitude, like what we talked about in last episode. Your thought is, I better grind a little harder, put in a little more work.

Scott: And skip your quiet time to get the work done, which is backwards of what you need.

Richard: Right, That's an interesting thing Matt that you that you were able to identify, and kind of set yourself up for. It's like a step ahead or a step before the normal, or what I would probably pick as my first step. I would be like, OK I better sit and listen to God. No, step one just to get yourself ready to listen to God. Step two is then, get to ear out there and see what's going.

So Matt, through your time, what are you guys feeling is coming up next for you?

Wrapping things up to hand it off to others
Matt: I really feel strongly that it's closing off the season .For the way that we're going to organize this as you build a business that will create jobs. But if that business is contingent on Lindsay and I being involved in it, then it's really not for the Belizean people. If it can’t live without us, or survive without us. So it was, systematize and almost like my franchising days. How do we create systems in place where the Belizeans can ultimately take this over and it can exist indefinitely. For me, it was going back and seeing my family and my nephews and my parents and realizing. You know so much of the missionary talk that I heard was, like, pack your casket, right . The truth is, look it's 2022, and I can I can go back and forth without feeling like I failed anybody. I get to live in two places, because I have value for your society too. There are perspectives and people that are hurting and I understand the culture so much better, that I can just jump right in and have the conversation with people. So I think the message that I got is - go and enjoy it because before long that won’t be your season and you're gonna miss this. We have children that are that are on the brink of adulthood that I want to be here to make sure that I'm ready for that.

What is my perspective? Do I see things as a burden or a gift?

I have a business that needs to be independent of me and Lindsey so that we can leave it in the Belizean ownership and in a really good spot and be able to come back and visit it whenever we want. It’s the ability to look at this work and the people that are associated with it as gifts. The customers are gifts, the farm that needs lots of work is a gift because I get to work on it . Before I went to the states, when I looked at all the farm work I just went “ugh”. And now, I'm like, how cool is this.

Scott: So you shifted from the word burden to the word gift.

Matt: 100% I did. I think that is out of all the takeaways, it was not that I had to go and fix or change anything but if I look at a stack of papers and a stack of letters that I need to get out and I have kids that are calling me, I don't go ‘Ahh, this is too much’ but “God, I'm not sure how I'm gonna get this all done, please give me the capacity.’  I'm just gonna walk faithfully, right, and all of a sudden the burden of getting everything done, it feels lighter. It doesn't you don't have to work anymore, I don't just sit by my computer with my feet up and say ‘God, it’s your business not mine, good luck.’ The reality is I can work all day on a marketing campaign and the only one that can change people’s willingness to respond to it, is God in the way that he works in their hearts and their minds, right. so much of the success that I've been able to have in my life I look back and I can only see God's hand in it, not that I did something brilliant or amazing, but that God said ‘I'm gonna work through you because you are my son and I love you, not because you are amazing and smart and good.’

 I remember selling franchises and sitting in my car praying, ‘There's no way, I don’t know how I'm going to do this’ and then people would call and that wasn't because I did something great, God put the burden of them saying ‘I want to explore this.’  If I wasn't in tune with him I might have missed it or I might not have been so grateful to be like, wow the phone is ringing. Or that Facebook posts that we put up for the dairy, it reached 10,000 people, wow God, thank you so much.

Scott: In business, people are typically proud of themselves and a lot of pride and I hear you talking about humility, which is very different, I'm not gonna say opposite, but very different. And in humility there is freedom, is that correct?

Matt: I love the way that you say that, and it's true, right. If Matt is in charge of fixing poverty in Belieze, we are in big trouble. But if God is and we are just along for the ride, that is amazing. For me it wasn't so much clarity as a different mental shift in the way that I viewed the things that God let me be in charge of and instead of seeing them as challenging or trouble, I mean there still going to be hard, it's living in another culture with a massive family and not enough resources. If I look at my kitchen table and go holy cow, we're eating again instead of going “rice and beans, ugh I am so tired, I eat steak in America. Right, but if I go we are all fed, we are all healthy - I'm gonna celebrate that instead of think about what next or want something bigger or better 

Chad: Paul says in Philippians 4:6-7: present your requests to God, right, don't be anxious about anything, present your requests with thanksgiving. In all things, challenging or not challenging, with thanksgiving – that perspective that this is something God had given me, it might be hard, it may be challenging but I should be thankful for it. Give it to God and then you get the peace that passes understanding. I see you living that out, but it's like God had to remind you how to live in that posture, right?

Matt: It's amazing how many times I have totally forgotten who's in charge and try to bring the burden of responsibility back to myself, right, like all of us right.

Richard: I find, Scott, going back to your question where you asked Matt about what could have been some early indicators, some leading indicators of when things are starting to go off the tracks. For me, I can usually tell when I'm trying to make something more about me, more of the Richard show than what it should be. I think it does go back to Matt’s comment, if I'm trying to grow my business for my glory, I take that on like my burden, I have to do this, this is my thing, look at me. The amount of pressure that comes along with that, unnecessary pressure, because at the end of the day it's not mine, but that's usually one of those indicators where I start to feel that pressure and I have to take that step back and do exactly what Matt was saying, I'm not here for Richard’s glory, I'm not here to make myself look better. The sigh of relief when you go, ‘Oh yeah, I'm not in charge for universe. Huge burden off my shoulders.’ The same thing, if I'm in charge of the universe we got we got problems. But it's so much more fun to be invited along on the journey versus having that burden all on your shoulders. I'm amazed at how, I went through something similar a couple years ago, and just did the complete 180 in my mentality, in my mindset, in the joy that I can take to work and to my office, it's just it's life changing, it really is.

Scott: I ride a tandem bike, a lot. There are some thoughts that are going through my mind on that. If I consider who's in the front seat and who's in the back seat (stoker), typically my wife or wives for the other couples we ride with. If you ask my wife, what's hard about riding a tandem? She will very quickly say ‘giving up control’. But some of the times, in the second seat, in the Stoker seat; the wives are answering emails while we're riding, they're taking pictures, they're having a great old time - and I am just on edge trying to make sure we don't crash and things like that. So, if we translate that to think about God in the front seat and also our job is to ride along, to give some push once in a while that we have to, not to quit, but that is really freedom, and freedom in Christ at that point.

Richard: Matt’s it's not that you just kick back and see what happens, God will return all these emails, I don't have to do that. But you can still put in a lot of effort, you can just do it joyfully knowing that we're working on God's plan and he's giving you this opportunity in whatever position you're in.

Chad: He's responsible for the outcome.

Richard. You're there to give your best effort based on the gifts that he has given you. The way that Matt was built …fishing story… God does not make mistakes, so we are each created in the way that we are created with these specific mix of strengths and weaknesses, passions for a specific purpose. We are each a unique puzzle piece that God has desired to fit in a specific spot. The way Matt has been designed, the wife that he has been given, has made that team specifically designed for what's going on in that, for this specific time. Keeping that in mind as well, If you are focused on doing what God calls you to do, no matter what that is, I think you can you can find joy and you can find a sense of pride in the fact that you are doing what God built you for.  You have a purpose yes and you can figure out what that is and then go after it.

Chad: I think, related to the whole thing we have been talking about control, is also God does use our giftedness. There is a saying that we may be often heard, God doesn't call the equipped, he equips the call and I think that's a nice phrase. But you look in Scripture at many of the people he called, you would not necessarily describe as equipped. They're broken, they have flaws, they are imperfect but they are who God chose at a time and a place to do something - and they had gifts as well, it is not like they were giftless. But they didn't have everything they needed, right, they lacked act a lot but God still used them and so I think that's for us to recognize too. That's God's MO, that's how he works, so he gets the glory because we're flawed and we don't have everything and that's always gonna be that way. You're not gonna find the job we're like ‘oh I've got this all figured out and this is easy, you know I work 9 to 10 and I'm done, so much for this 9 to 5 stuff.’ I think that's part of it too, on one hand, like you said Richard, we're gifted and put in for certain place I mean to trust that God put us there in that place, but he's also gonna fill in those gaps that we don't have and we trust that he's gonna do that.

 
FINAL THOUGHTS:

Richard: I like it. So to recap a couple things that I guess are sticking out from me. 

If you feel like you are not in the place where God is called you. If you maybe feel like your puzzle piece isn't fitting, now is a great time to start that dialogue with God through prayer, through quiet time, through scripture reading. Take a little time put, yourself in timeout, get ready to hear what God has to say and then get to it with your Scripture reading, with your printer - and that kind of ties back in with what we're talking about when we prefaced our quiet time. If you don't have quiet time in the scripture, as part of your regular routine, then how do you expect to hear God talking to you in the first place. Start with that.

Then, get yourself out of whatever environment you are in like Matt did, whether you can physically remove yourself or whether you need to rely on somebody that is already outside, get that outside perspective or do both. You may feel that tug to switch careers, well, take a little time to actually get out of your current work environment, seek out trusted counsel and see what type of perspective that gives you. I think maybe like what Matt found out, maybe just getting out of the situation for a little bit getting that outside perspective gives you a different perspective and you can jump right back in whatever situation you're in. Maybe that is where God was calling you to be and you just needed to have a little bit of a change in attitude or maybe getting out may provide that perspective that now is the time to the time to make the jump and do something different.

Matt, I really appreciate sharing what you have going on, I appreciate your openness and just your willingness to share what you guys have going on, what you've learned, what your process has been. No doubt this episode will be another high download number, just because a lot of people are curious to find out what what came from your time away.

If you're not in your quiet times, get in the quiet time get in the scripture get grounded in scripture, that’s the only way that you're going to hear from Him.  If you joined us with episode 12 or if you went back and listened you remember Matt said that oftentimes it's just say prayer, take a step say prayer. You're not gonna hear what that next step is supposed to be if you're not having that dialogue with God.

Scott: Closed in prayer. …”Lord can we do this together, I will follow your lead.” …